Transcript: Dr. Ronald Rochon, President at California State University, Fullerton on Reimagining HE 🎧

This is Reimagining The Future of Higher Education from Studiosity. Your go-to podcast with remarkable education leaders, sharing personal stories from their experience in and around the sector, including reflection and evidence for progress in the sector. With your host, Professor Judyth Sachs, former DVC Learning and Teaching at the University of Sydney, Deputy Vice-Chancellor and Provost Macquarie University and Special Advisor in Higher Education at KPMG and now Chief Academic Officer at Studiosity.

Prof Judyth Sachs:
It gives me great pleasure to introduce Dr. Ronald Rochon, the 10th president of California State Fullerton. Next week Ron celebrates his first anniversary as president at Fullerton, and I congratulate you on lasting a year, and I look forward to reading about many more successful years. But I invite everybody who participates in these conversations to bring an object that represents their journey as a leader and a learner. And in particular, how that starts to frame your re-imagining the future of higher education. So Ron, over to you.

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Oh, well first of all, let me just say thank you Judyth for having me. It's an honor to be with you and your audience. I am humbled by this opportunity also because I get to maybe share a perspective regarding not only my journey, but some of my thoughts and how they are impacting higher education and how higher education is impacting me and the campus that I'm serving. So thank you so much. I was really intrigued by the question about bringing an object. And I'll tell you, immediately I thought about this object that has become very important to me, very important to every president, and that is the Presidential Medallion. At Cal State, within the Cal State system, they have a very unique opportunity that I did not have in Indiana when I was president. In this system, the president is provided the opportunity to create or design their own medallion And, you know, we have this traditional medal that really symbolizes the campus. It's very traditional. It will have, you know, that particular ornate, that defined specific object, or illustration. And on mine is an orange tree. You know, this is in Orange County. It demonstrates very clearly that we were identified in 1957 as a comprehensive institution within the state of California, as a public institution. So it simply says California State University Fullerton. But on the medallion, I have these name plates. And on the name plates at the very top have the names of my mother and father. And on opposite side, literally across from that name plate is the name plate of my wife's mother and father. And I begin with there because neither one of our parents went to college. Or my mother, my mother and father were not able to go, not because they were not smart enough, but they didn't have the resources. They didn't have the opportunity. They became parents very, very young. And my wife's parents became parents even younger than my parents. They too were not be able to go to college. But I begin with them because they are the reason my wife and I are both here. My wife is a graduate of not only the University of Illinois, but she went and received her master's degree from, from another institution. She just recently received an honorary doctorate from the University of Southern Indiana. So she has definitely been able to make her family and most importantly make her parents who are both in heaven very, very proud. And my parents, my mom is in heaven, my father's still alive, he was a cop for 30 years in Chicago. He is so proud of his son. I'm the eldest of three. And because of them, we have two adult children. I have a daughter who's 25 and a son who's 27. My daughter, she's a newly-minted MBA recipient, and our son, he just received his PhD. And so when I think about this journey about the evolution, and I think about really the journey of African Americans in particular and how the entire race of people at one point, it was against the law to learn how to read. Literacy would bring you death. And to be in a space now where we have evolved in this space, not only of pride, but of learning, of curiosity, of developing new knowledge. It's a medal that means a great deal to me. Real quickly, the last two plates on my medal, I have two emblems. They are called Adinkra. They're from West Africa, from Ghana in particular, from the Asante people. One speaks about one's faith in God. And the other one speaks about diversity and democracy, two things that I firmly believe in, trying to enhance the ability to be collaborative, to be intentional, to be someone who understands the significance of the neighbor next door, especially those who have a different language, a different belief system, a different way in engaging the world is such a beautiful way to develop friendships. But also to develop yet another form of education, to learn, to always be learning about the significance of sharing our space and our planet together. And so I'm very, very thankful. And then at the very bottom, it says President Rochon on the medal. And so it comes kind of full circle, you know, from my ancestral roots to my appreciation of history, to my respect of our parents, our celebration of our children. And then also the celebration of, of the ability to learn and to teach and engage. So that's my object, I hope that describes it well.

Prof Judyth Sachs:
Can you, can you just lift it up and show us? 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
I would be honoured.

Prof Judyth Sachs:
 Or you could even put it on.

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Oh put it on, ok. It's a beautiful medal. It's quite heavy, like most medallions. But here I'll show you. It literally is...

Prof Judyth Sachs:
That is quite magnificent. 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Yeah, it's a beautiful medal. Yeah.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
 Yes, well, and you described it, you described it beautifully. So when, when I did my research on you Ron, you've actually served in a variety of universities all around the country, the only part, the only of America that you don't seem to have had a job in is the northeast, probably too cold. But having served in those those different kinds of universities, in those different contexts, how has that shaped you as an educator leader? And what have you learned from working in different contexts? 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
You know, well, I'll tell you one of the things that I know that I've learned, you know, is the commonality of people. I've learn the commonality of the academy, of faculty and staff with regard to their desire to, to teach their craft to, to care about this next generation of students, to really engage in a way in which we quite often take for granted. And that is, you know, having resources at our fingertips, and kind of reminding our students that this is not common across the globe. There are still many, many communities across many continents that still are struggling to have educational resources at their fingertips, at a price that is affordable for all people to see and to gain. That has been a big lesson for me, you know, to, to really understand the commonality of our desire to engage our students in a very special way. The other thing that I would tell you that has become extremely instructive for me is recognizing that even within the US, that we have a wide gap of those who are identified as the haves and the have-nots. We still have inadequate resources within public schools across our country. You know, you can see that, it's evident. I've been in communities where, where some children go through metal detectors that are far more invasive than the TSA within major airports, and they do them multiple times a day. They walk past dilapidated homes. They walk past wheated fields and we expect them to come to class eager, you know excited, and ready to learn. We have some children who come to school on a daily basis that are hungry, that are wondering if they may have an extra lunch that they can bring home to one of their siblings. The reality of this is ever so present. And so, you know, seeing this, going to work, understanding that it's something we should not ignore, but we should pour ourselves into, is something that I have really paid attention, paid a lot of attention to. Tran and I, for example, we were in Los Angeles just last week at a meeting. And I recall vividly, you know, she'd given me some free time to meander around the city. And as I did so, you now, I came across several unhoused people who were struggling. And listen, you know, Judyth, these were, these were not, I think that quite often we have this construct in our mind that the unhoused are usually those who are older. Those who are mentally imbalanced or having some issue that is a need for assistance, what I was seeing that day were young people unhoused, young people who were struggling, young people looking for an answer, looking for some kind of pathway. And it gives me pause. I see in those people not just an unhoused person, which is evident, but also see someone's, someone's child, someone's nephew or niece, or maybe even someone's parent. You know, these are people who matter. These are people who we should be concerned about. These are people that we should, we should be thinking about and finding out ways in which we can really create a curriculum and a space for our students to understand that no matter what they major in, physics or poetry, that we collectively have responsibility to humanity. And that's one of the reasons that I get excited about higher education. I get excited about faculty and staff who really understand the significance of community engagement and what that looks like on a daily basis, both in and outside of the classroom. So I can ramble more and more, but I'll stop there. 

Prof Judyth Sachs:
So what was your undergraduate student experience like? You studied animal science. 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
I did. I did, you know, I wanted to be a veterinarian at a point in my life. I mean, I was so, listen, I was so fortunate. My mother allowed me to bring every species of an animal in the house that I could catch. You name it, I brought it in the house and she was a mother who did not find excitement of having, you know, snakes, and mice, and rats in the house. She didn't. Cats and dogs and and I won't even mention the other species of animals, but...but she loved her son, and she knew that I loved animals. And I went to Tuskegee University. It's a beautiful historically black college in Alabama. It was developed in 1881 with Booker T. Washington at the helm. And Tuskegee maintains a mission to provide people of African descent, former slaves, an opportunity to not only become literate, but to become autonomous, to become teachers and become specialists in agriculture and at Tuskegee evolved into this, you know, this amazing institution that covers every major under the sun. But it was a space where I found intimacy. I found pride. I found security. I found safety. I found love. But also I found Ron. You know, I was actually seeing people that looked like me doing things that I had never imagined possible. I could tell you something real, real quickly. This is a, it's a long story, I'll make it very short, I promise. But I remember my very first year at Tuskegee, you know, I had a big brother serving as a mentor and he encouraged me to stay for commencement. And I had not planned on doing so, but I'm glad. I saw doing commencement, Judyth, all these students at the beginning of the commencement exercises, walking across the stage, they were adorned in these beautiful gowns with bars on their sleeves. I had no idea what those were, you know these chevrons on their sleeves. I had idea that they were being hooded with an academic hood. I saw this fabric being placed around their necks, and as they walked across the stage, there was a narrator reciting a title. I had no idea what that was either, but it was the title of the dissertation. I remember vividly to this moment calling my mother after that commencement and said, I don't know what they just got, but I'm getting one. I want one of those. And the point that I make is that Tuskegee exposed me to things that I had never seen before. It taught me early on about the possibility of doing something special, doing something different, doing something more, but also in connection with that doing, serving. And Tuskegee had a very, very strong non-negotiable philosophical position that we would be servants, that we would uplift. And I take great pride in being a part of that community, being a part of that legacy.

Prof Judyth Sachs:
And has that experience shaped your leadership, both at Southern Indiana, but now also at Fullerton?

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
You know, it's a bit self-serving for me to say yes to you, but I would hope that people that you would interview about me, I would that they would tell you that that's the way I live my life. That's the why I serve as a president. I would, I hope that they will tell you that that they find me working hard to engage people in the most sincere and authentic way possible and understanding that I am a temporary steward in this position. I am not, I'm not a permanent president. No university president should be. I see myself as a temporary steward. I have a key to ample offices, or it's a metaphor, but that is all I have. The university is not called Cal State Rochon, it's called California State University Fullerton, for a reason. And so I'm very thankful, and I feel very fortunate that the people, that even these two people that I sit with today, even yourself. You know, as a witness to this conversation, they allow me to serve. And I mean that. And I don't get that twisted any way in my mind at all. The people allow you to serve, and when they decide that you should no longer serve, they come together, they make it known. And so I'm going to take this job very seriously. I'm going to do my very best to serve effectively and serve in a willingly way where I'm listening to what the people are wanting, needing, and also expecting.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
So you've served as a president in the Midwest. I did a degree at Western Michigan University, a master's degree at Western Michigan, and then did two sabbaticals at Madison Wisconsin. So I know the Midwest, very different from California. So in terms of your leading two different universities, in two different contexts, with two very different histories, what sort of adjustments did you make or was your sort of central commitment to service, the foundation for everything you've done in both universities?

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Yeah, I think that you'll find that to be a common thread, a common denominator, you know, for me, that service is a non-negotiable variable at the top of my ladder. It is the rung that I believe that we should be paying attention to each and every day. And what I mean by that, really, is simple for me. That is, you, know, there are, the table, this table right here is a metaphor, but it's real. And there are only so many seats at every table. And I believe that we as representatives of the table should be thinking about those who are outside the room, how they would want to be treated, what they would want done to advance the institution. Now, listen, I think so I can maybe help people who believe that tongue in cheek may be a part of my delivery and it is not. I am not naive in thinking that I can make everyone happy. I do not lead that way. You know, my work, my job is hard and decisions that I need to make and have to make with my team are difficult and they do not make everyone happy. But we can be consistent. We can be fair. We can be data driven. We can use objectivity with regard to how we interpret the data as well. And also we can invite other constituents in at times to hear how they're interpreting the policy, initiative, or direction of the institution. This is why, this is why the public square is so important to me. This is why the public domain is such an important piece of our, of our DNA as an institution. We should be working to hear from the public as we serve the public. And I think that if you, if you had to ask anyone about consistency, about my leadership and my efforts at least, I would hope again that the word service would come up over and over again and the well-being of the people that we're serving would always be at the forefront of the thinking and the responses as well.

"service is a non-negotiable variable at the top of my ladder. It is the rung that I believe that we should be paying attention to each and every day. And what I mean by that, really, is simple for me. That is, you, know, there are, the table, this table right here is a metaphor, but it's real. And there are only so many seats at every table. And I believe that we as representatives of the table should be thinking about those who are outside the room, how they would want to be treated, what they would want done to advance the institution."

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
I haven't been to Cal State Fullerton. Take me for a walk around campus and imagine that I'm one of your students. And, you know, tell me about being a student at Cal State Fullerton. 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
You know, we have this beautiful walkway that leads into the heart of the campus. And it's one of my favorite walkways, it's this beautiful pavered way that is lined on the borders of each side with music. And I'm not even sure who's responsible for the playlist, but it's always pleasant music, you know, oldies, goodies, contemporary. But it's always something that makes you just feel a little lighthearted and also a bit appreciative of the trees that we have on campus, the sunlight that is beaming on your face, and in my case, on my bald head, it is a space that will allow you to see many different angles as you're walking across campus. You're going to see students nesting in certain spaces as well, congregating together. You're going to see traffic, foot traffic is everything. You're going to see, unfortunately, traffic that just gives me so much nervousness. That's scooter traffic. You are going to that as well on campus. You are going to see students breaking bread, engaging in fellowship. You're going to see faculty walking together, talking to students. You're going to get to a certain part of the Grove area where there's this beautiful tree and almost every single day when I walk on the quad there are students either playing musical instruments who are part of our music majors, or you're going to hear students out there singing a cappella. It is absolutely wonderful to hear these young, talented human beings just share their craft with the campus. I stop by there to pour love into them and appreciation because they choose to sing outside, these students they choose to play outside and practice outside and I love it. We have many, many modern buildings as you can imagine. We have construction going on as well, something that the president loves to see. I love to see new development. As inconvenient as construction is, it is truly a sign that there is investment in this campus. There's investment in this student body. And that makes me extremely happy. And then also, I think one of the things that I've come to appreciate is that you're going to come to different spaces where people are, are eating together. I have found food to be such a warm, welcoming piece of healing and a piece of opportunity to get to know and understand the person you sit across. So you know there's so many diverse areas on campus. Speaking of diverse, let me just say this to you. One of the most exciting pieces about moving to this part of the country is that you're going to hear multiple languages being spoken on our campus every single day. I said multiple, and that too is wonderful. You're going to see different identity groups. You're going to see students who identify in multiple ways. And I'm not talking about, you know, this kind of binary response that I grew up with, you know? But I'm talking about students who are very comfortable in their own skin. Who are expressing themselves in ways in which I didn't grow up with my peers doing. I find it not only to be exciting, I find to be fulfilling. Again, I got to go back to that medal about democracy and diversity and us celebrating this opportunity where voice really is celebrated. Expression is respected and identity is found. It is not shamed. And Cal State Fullerton does it in a way that I have not experienced in my adult life before.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
 So continuing on with students, what are the challenges students are facing? Because in the last five years, we've had a pandemic, we've had having to transition learning to sort of online learning and then coming back on campus. I was delighted to hear that students are back on campus and clearly you've got a sticky campus. But what are the challenges students are facing?

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Yeah, you know I still believe that we're facing some post-pandemic dilemmas. I think that some students you know who have, have learned that online or virtual options are, are available and that need that option are not necessarily doing best with that option. You know I think that finding ways in which we can find a balance to support students who need face-to-face, who need peers around them, who need faculty, you know, close by. There is a segment of our student population that need that on a daily basis. And sometimes their course offerings will be virtual. And quite honestly, they are seeking that option because they are quite often bread winners for the family. You know, many of our students are working 25+ hours a week to make ends meet. And so, you know utilizing a virtual option really is, is their go-to. So I think some post-pandemic realities are some things we're still facing with. We're still facing a very strong narrative in the U.S. about the value proposition when it comes to higher education. You know trying to convince people that this is truly a worthy endeavor that really is transformative. It really does open one's door, not only with regard to workforce development, not only with regard to enhanced economics, but it opens doors with regard to civility and citizenship, engagement, participation within democracy. Higher education does these things. It really, you know, affirms the need for citizens to not only be engaged and involved, but to do it with an authentic, sincere desire. And I love that about the academy. The academy, you now, even though I majored in animal sciences, you know taught me about the significance of asking different questions. You know, taking philosophy at Tuskegee, taking history courses at Tuskegee, taking sociology at Tuskegee, taught me different things that, that the sciences did not engage in, you know, quite readily, to be honest with you. And so, you having this, this mixture, this combination of offerings intellectually, really, I believe helps us to become strong citizens, help us, helps us to become even better neighbors. And so I would tell you that this piece with regard to student involvement, student engagement is a really important piece of who we are.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
So what I'm hearing in terms of re-imagining the future of higher education, it's actually about the people and it's about building capability and capacity of the people that are living through their own learning, but also having to manage complexity and change. Is that, you know, do you want to sort of elaborate your notion of...you know, breakdown...

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Yeah, I love you concluding that from me. I really do, because that is what I'm about. I say it over and over again, that listen, think about this, I don't know anything about your personal life with regard to family, but I would tell you that the majority of us, if we don't have biological kids, we have a child in our life somewhere. Be it a neighbor, a niece, a nephew, somewhere there is a child in our lives. If not a child, there's a young person who we are mentoring. There's someone that we are connected to. I firmly believe that when those children and young adults choose us as mentors, that is a gift. And so how we treat that gift is the question I'm asking everyone. And so I want people to recognize that families that choose Cal State Fullerton have chosen us for a reason. And it's our responsibility, we are held accountable as academics, as professionals. We're together in a collaborative way to make sure that that student is successful in walking across that stage and that they too will carry the baton and share with another human being at some point. "Each one teach one" is a philosophical position that I firmly believe in. We can't do this alone, Judyth. And the university cannot run without students. It cannot run without people. The brick and mortar on our campus is absolutely stunning. It is aesthetically beautiful to one's eye, but it means nothing without the people that are housing this space. The souls that come and occupy this space, the souls that comes and serve this space and so I'm very thankful that you are concluding the importance of the significance of people in my delivery this afternoon. I'm very appreciative of that. Thank you.

"Each one teach one" is a philosophical position that I firmly believe in. We can't do this alone, Judyth. And the university cannot run without students. It cannot run without people."

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
If you also think we've had the pandemic, now we've got the ChatGPT and AI, and that's been a major disruptor, particularly around issues of integrity, particularly around delivery. What's your view about the future of higher education as around technology and around student learning?

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Yeah. You know, I'll be candid with you. You talked about online instruction a little while ago with the pandemic and I would tell you that I was not a proponent of online instruction when it came, when it became really becoming popular. You know I was a traditional professor and I felt that you know the classroom was, was my sacred space and the students that occupied it with me, we made it more sacred because we had these core values that we had agreed upon the first week of class. And I felt that this was the way to learn. It's the way I grew up learning, face-to-face instruction. And I have come to conclude that virtual learning for a large segment of the globe is not only sufficient, it is essential. It is worthy. It is respectful. It is effective from the standpoint that it reaches some people in ways in which I never imagined possible. And so with AI, I am thinking of it as a tool that we as academics need to be prepared to receive, to work with, to engage, and actually drive ourselves. I firmly believe that if we don't place our oar in the water as it pertains to technology and other technological tools, then someone else will do it for us. And we may not be pleased at all with regard to the curriculum that they develop or that they execute. And so I firmly believe in my colleagues. I believe that faculty who have gone to school, that have engaged in the academy where you are, you are asking new questions, you are developing new knowledge, you are expected to provide citations. You are expected to provide evidence. You are expected to have that evidence replicated by another investigator. That is exciting. We developed it as academics. The history of the academy rests on those shoulders. And so my point now is simply, what will we do with academics with AI? And what way will we place the oar in the water to control this piece of scholarship opportunity? I believe that this is a helpful tool, a useful tool, a worthy tool, but it's one that we must engage without question. We cannot leave it alone, for just anyone to bring to the forefront of thinking and discovery.

Prof Judyth Sachs:
 So you talked about your own going to a commencement ceremony and students walking across the stage. You've now been to many where you've been up on the stage, you've been watching the students. What advice would you give to, you know, a cohort of students that were walking across the stage tomorrow? 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Yeah, it's a great question. Now, I'll tell you there's so many things that you would want to share with them. You know, might sound soft, but I believe it is extremely difficult, and that is, I want to challenge students to find a way to engage a community, engage people, engage opportunity that brings them discomfort. I want to ask them to find a way to discover a new set of people that they have heard about, that they truly know nothing about. I want to ask students to find a way, to become better listeners. To close, close your mouth and open both those ears and just take in what you're seeing and what you are smelling, and what you're tasting, and what you're discovering. You know, listen, you know, it's so funny because, you know, I'll tell you, I'll turn 65 in just a few months and I feel so young, I feel so alive, I feel so fortunate. But also I know, quite honestly, I've missed a lot because I missed out on doing some of these things I'm speaking about right now because of fear, because of poor instruction, because of observation of people that I knew and people that I didn't know at all. I can tell you right now in Alabama, going to Tuskegee, there was another school just up the road that many folks have heard about, Auburn University. And my visits in Auburn were not necessarily kind, nor productive. And I'm not sure that I can blame that on just the poor behavior of many adults that did not receive us well. I think that there's something I could have done as well to maybe have created a friendship or an opportunity for me to engage Auburn very differently. And listen, this is a very difficult history. Don't get me wrong, I'm not being naive. But I do know this, that throughout my living as an adult, my living as an academic, I have been afforded the opportunity to meet people across the globe. They have changed my life. And, oh, what that would have done at the age of 18, and 19, and 20, during my very formative years, you know? So I want to encourage my students to do what President Rochon did not do. And I want to tell them about what I didn't do. I want to tell them about my fear. I want to tell them about, about what kept me away. And I want to tell them about ways in which they can control their space. They can control their smile. They can control their ability to discern and they can control their ability to identify people to serve and to work with much more effectively than I ever attempted to when I was their age. If we are not honest with our students about our mistakes, we're going to see the same mistakes replicated over and over and again. Students need to know that President Rochon made a lot of mistakes. You know, he had a lot of shortcomings. If anyone resonates with my message today at all, if it resonates in a way which makes you feel good or what makes you think in a positive way, it's because I have evolved into this person. And I really believe that we can help our students evolve much quicker, much earlier, if we tell them who we truly are and the mistakes we made when we were their age.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
So Ron, what advice would you give to the younger Ron?

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Oh my goodness. You know, I would definitely encourage Ron, the younger one, to be a bit more confident in himself. I found confidence late in life. And I'll be honest with you, still searching for some confidence in certain spaces. I really am. I would tell Ron to be a bit more patient with himself. I have been impatient with myself throughout my life. I think just feeling a bit inadequate because of how I've seen myself through the lens of television, through the lens of other voices. The lens of other narrations that knew nothing about black life, black community, black history, black struggle, black beauty, black triumph. I didn't have a lot of that outside of my mother and father's nucleus of their home, you know, until I got to Tuskegee. And so, you now, having that opportunity to learn so much about who I am as a Black man gives me greater love and appreciation for all these two people that I'm with right now. You know, I love and appreciate who they are as individuals. I respect who they are. I celebrate who they are because I know who I am and it's a good thing. It's a good thing to celebrate who we are and to discover who we and to be proud of who we. So that's what I would tell Ron. I'll tell him to do that a little bit sooner, son. Do that a little bit more effective.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
I've got two more questions.

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Okay.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
If we were going to have this conversation, if we were fortune enough to meet up again in three years time, or three to five years time, and that we're both in good health. What would we be talking about, particularly relating to higher education and your university? 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Yeah, I'll tell you what, what I'm hopeful that we'll be talking about is how Cal State Fullerton weathered uncertainty. How Cal State Fullerton came together as a community to support one another no matter the circumstances. Cal State Fulton was able to understand that, that federal government is important, that federal government is real, and that federal government is respected, but the federal government is not the only entity that allows us to do what we are doing. It is because of our will, our desire, our ability to serve one another that Cal State Fullerton weathered uncertainty like nobody's business, with joy, with discernment, with strategy, but also with effectiveness in serving its people.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
Once again, people at the core of what you're talking about.

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Yes, yeah, thank you.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
So my last question is a little quirky.

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Okay, I've been quirky all afternoon, so this is our theme as well.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
What are you reading at the moment? 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Interesting, right now I'm reading this book called 'Multipliers'. I'm actually going to be using it for a retreat with my cabinet. It's focused on leadership. It's looking at different strategies on ways in which one engages some of the questions you've been asking. I've appreciated all that you've been talking about because it's looking really at ways in which we discern, how we build, you know, the opportunity to multiply. I used the baton as a metaphor earlier, and I'll use it again. I believe the baton is a significant instrument in a race that is quite often, and you've seen it in relays, it's quite often fumbled, and it's fumbled not because people are not trying to get it in your hand, they want to get it in your hand, but we sometimes don't understand the importance of, of multiplying strategy, of multiplying discernment, of multiplying initiatives that are going to be very effective through practice. So this is on my mind, how we engage in multiplying a healthy, holistic understanding of service to the community is something that's on my mind. You know, I've gone off track with the book a little bit, I apologize, but you know, but it is a metaphor, you know that is on my mind as we prepare for this upcoming retreat with the cabinet and our academic deans. I am wanting people to hear my next convocation address speak about the wellbeing of our campus through service, about the wellbeing of our campuses through collaboration. About the wellbeing of our campus through intentionality. And we cannot do it without every single human being understanding the significance of their role. Regardless of title, regardless of tenure, we are all essential to the success of this institution. And that's what I want to multiply.

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
Ron, I would love to have worked in a university with you as the leader. You are inspirational, you are, you operate from the heart as well as the head. But in fact, it's not about you, it's about us. So thank you, thank you for spending time with me. You've made my day and I hope that you've enjoyed your conversation with me. 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Oh, I've enjoyed you. And listen, I'm coming to Australia. OK? 

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
Sydney is a great city. I'll show you around Sydney.

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
You know what, one day you and I will shake hands and we will have a meal together, okay? It's a pleasure. Thank you, Judyth. Thank you so much. Okay. 

Prof Judyth Sachs: 
I just wish you all the best for, you know, what will continue to be an interesting and challenging year for all of us. 

Dr. Ronald Rochon:
Thank you so much.

Visit Studiosity.com/studentsfirst for the next Students First Symposium. An open forum for faculty, staff and academics to candidly discuss and progress the issues that matter most in higher education.